[MrMoo]

Hello,

I finally went to pickup my new TLX today from the dealership. Everything was set and I was sent over to the finance person to do all the paperwork. They told me about the extended warranty and at first I turned it down. However, I then asked if it included maintenance as well, which she stated that she could throw that in for the same price. That got me really thinking about it so I asked more about the extended warranty. I was extremely surprised when she said that it was for 100,000 miles with NO term limit (years). That just boggled my mind so I asked a couple more times if she was sure there was no term limit. I even asked if I were to only drive the car 5 miles per year that it would pretty much last forever. I agreed to the terms she stated, 60,000 mile maintenance and 100,000 mile platinum coverage warranty with no term limit for a total of $2,475.

When I looked over the warranty paperwork I noticed that that the term box was blank (and still is) and the mileage was filled in with 100,000. I also noticed that the type of coverage (silver, gold, platinum, etc.) was not selected/checked. So I asked if she could check the box before I signed the contract. She seemed a little hesitant at first but went ahead and checked the box. Afterwards I proceeded to sign all the paperwork and paid my down payment. She left the room and came back and handed me an envelope with a copy off all the paperwork inside, or so I thought. Being the detail oriented person that I am I decided to verify that a copy of all my paperwork was inside before I left...surprisingly a copy of the extended warranty contract was not inside. I went back inside the dealership to find her but she was not in her office. I ended up running into the salesman I dealt with and asked him for a copy. He went and found her and she sent him to her office. When he found the warranty paperwork he asked how long it was for. I told him it was for 100,000 miles. He then asked for how many years? I told him that there was not a term limit as I had agreed to with the finance person and signed for. He was a little surprised so instead of giving me a copy he went and grabbed the finance person. She quickly walked to her office and gave me a copy of the warranty contract without issue, and more importantly with the term box blank. I said goodbye and was on my way home.

About 5 minutes into my drive home my phone rang over the cars bluetooth. I thought it was my wife calling as she was driving right behind me. It was the salesman I dealt with telling me that the extended warranty had a term of 7 years. I told him that I had not agreed to a term of 7 years, I had agreed to a no term limit with 100,000 mile warranty. He told me to think it over the weekend and call him back on Monday to see if wanted to keep it with a 7 year term or if I wanted to cancel it. He also sent me a text to come in and sign more paperwork afterwards...

This is really stressing me out as I'm not sure I would've gotten the warranty if it had a term limit. I say this because I will probably only drive this car 7,500 miles annually and keep it for 10 to 15 years.

Anybody have any advice? Should I contact a lawyer? I think 7 years/100,000 mile warranty for $1,200 is still a good deal, but it is not what I agreed to, asked about multiple times confirm, and signed a contract for.

 

[r.johnson]

first of all, please take alook at this thread, as it is quite similar:
http://www.tlxforums.com/forum/new-...n-forum/5201-prepaid-maintenance-package.html

i doubt they or acura will honor a unlimited term (years) for their extended warranty. the salesman prolly tried to pull a fast one by being fishy about the term and tried to make you sign it.

if i were you, a few questions that you need to ask or find out, and soon:
- 7 yrs or indefinite, this is the obvious question
- can the extended warranty be serviced at any acura dealership in the country?
- they said they will throw in regular scheduled maintenance as well at no extra cost, will this be honored at any acura dealership in the country?

the answer to the first question is prolly 7 years. the extended warranty is offered by acura the manufacturer, not the dealership. its acura who sets the mileage and length of time, and i do not think the dealership has any power to change that.

the way this will likely work is:
- you pay the money for the extended warranty
- dealership passes the money to acura HQ (and prolly get some commission too)
- if there is anything that needs to be replaced and covered in the extended warranty, dealership does the work, and bills acura HQ for parts and labor. acura HQ reimburses all costs and you do not have to pay a penny since you paid the extended warranty money up front.

i am not 100% sure if this is entirely true, but i dont think i am very far off from it, since this is how it works if the car has any problems for the first 4 years when it still has the standard bumper-to-bumper warranty, or if there are any safety recalls, all of which are at no cost to the owner, and acura HQ pays for them all. so yes, its kinda like paying car insurance so to speak where you pay a premium and if you get into an accident you get covered for liabilities and damages.

the answer to the second question is prolly "yes". since this is reimbursed by acura HQ, they do not care where the warranty service took place. all they need to know is your car's VIN, the odometer and what is fixed or replaced, and they just pay back the dealership, regardless of which one you go to

the third question is prolly "no" but given how they tried to pull a fast one on you with the unlimited term, i am willing to bet that they will lie about it to make you sign it. unlike some other brands like infiniti or audi or MB, acura does NOT offer prepaid maintenance packages. the ones offered by audi and MB works the same way as extended warranty, in that the money goes to HQ and you can have it serviced at any dealership in the country and HQ reimburses them. since acura does not offer such prepaid maintenance packages, they will not do the same thing. which means if your dealership offers free maintenance, you can only do it at that single dealership and not others. which may be okay, but as mentioned in the link at the top of my post, if sh!t happens between you and the dealership or the relationship turned sour, you lose out on those free or prepaid maintenance. make sure you take a good read on the link at the top of this post

IMHO, you should figure out how long you wanna keep the car for. if you plan to move on to the next car before 7 yrs or 100k miles, then there is no point in this extended warranty, especially if you have to pay up front.

also know that fluids and wear and tear stuff are not covered in warranty or maintenance......such as tires, brake stuff, engine fluids etc

and finally, give this a good read:
Is it worth buying an extended car warranty?

 

[MrMoo]

first of all, please take alook at this thread, as it is quite similar:
http://www.tlxforums.com/forum/new-...n-forum/5201-prepaid-maintenance-package.html

i doubt they or acura will honor a unlimited term (years) for their extended warranty. the salesman prolly tried to pull a fast one by being fishy about the term and tried to make you sign it.

if i were you, a few questions that you need to ask or find out, and soon:
- 7 yrs or indefinite, this is the obvious question
- can the extended warranty be serviced at any acura dealership in the country?
- they said they will throw in regular scheduled maintenance as well at no extra cost, will this be honored at any acura dealership in the country?

the answer to the first question is prolly 7 years. the extended warranty is offered by acura the manufacturer, not the dealership. its acura who sets the mileage and length of time, and i do not think the dealership has any power to change that.

the way this will likely work is:
- you pay the money for the extended warranty
- dealership passes the money to acura HQ (and prolly get some commission too)
- if there is anything that needs to be replaced and covered in the extended warranty, dealership does the work, and bills acura HQ for parts and labor. acura HQ reimburses all costs and you do not have to pay a penny since you paid the extended warranty money up front.

i am not 100% sure if this is entirely true, but i dont think i am very far off from it, since this is how it works if the car has any problems for the first 4 years when it still has the standard bumper-to-bumper warranty, or if there are any safety recalls, all of which are at no cost to the owner, and acura HQ pays for them all. so yes, its kinda like paying car insurance so to speak where you pay a premium and if you get into an accident you get covered for liabilities and damages.

the answer to the second question is prolly "yes". since this is reimbursed by acura HQ, they do not care where the warranty service took place. all they need to know is your car's VIN, the odometer and what is fixed or replaced, and they just pay back the dealership, regardless of which one you go to

the third question is prolly "no" but given how they tried to pull a fast one on you with the unlimited term, i am willing to bet that they will lie about it to make you sign it. unlike some other brands like infiniti or audi or MB, acura does NOT offer prepaid maintenance packages. the ones offered by audi and MB works the same way as extended warranty, in that the money goes to HQ and you can have it serviced at any dealership in the country and HQ reimburses them. since acura does not offer such prepaid maintenance packages, they will not do the same thing. which means if your dealership offers free maintenance, you can only do it at that single dealership and not others. which may be okay, but as mentioned in the link at the top of my post, if sh!t happens between you and the dealership or the relationship turned sour, you lose out on those free or prepaid maintenance. make sure you take a good read on the link at the top of this post

IMHO, you should figure out how long you wanna keep the car for. if you plan to move on to the next car before 7 yrs or 100k miles, then there is no point in this extended warranty, especially if you have to pay up front.

also know that fluids and wear and tear stuff are not covered in warranty or maintenance......such as tires, brake stuff, engine fluids etc

and finally, give this a good read:
Is it worth buying an extended car warranty?

First off, thank you for taking the time to respond...and respond so well and with such detail. I have not yet read the link you provided, but I definitely will. I too am a person who is skeptical about buying extended warranty. However, what really sold me was the no term limit. The no term limit to me meant that I would have the warranty coverage for my car for 13+ years.

They did mention the warranty would be good at any Acura dealership. I'm not so sure about the maintenance though...not as big of a concern for me as they are the only Acura dealer within an hour and a half of where I live and I don't plan on moving. However, now that I think of it, we may not be on that good of terms if I end up canceling the warranty. I'll probably actually end up canceling both the maintenance and warranty. I should've stuck with what I told the finance person the first time she offered me the warranty, "No thanks, I like my odds".

What is interesting is that the maintenance paperwork clearly shows that it is from Acura while the warranty paperwork shows that it is from Fidelity Warranty Services and is known as Carefree Car Protection.

I'll probably update this post or make a new post after reading all the info you posted. Thanks again!

P.S. Nice color combination

 

[andre12dbsi]

Nice response @r.johnson

One other thing to keep in mind is that you can purchase the extended warranty at any point as long as your base warranty is still valid. If you're unsure to keep the car, you can always hold off until you've had a bit more time with the car. The only disadvantage with this is that you won't be able to include it in your financing if you do finance the car. Also, if they're including free maintenance you wouldn't be able to take advantage of that. I just wanted to make the point that if you're not comfortable with getting it right away, you can still purchase it further down the road.

 

[HAx5]

I see red warning flags here! A couple of tactical suggestions while you work through this:

1. Document evrything in writing. Hate to say it, but it is the only way. If you eventually need a lawyer (even years from now), it eliminates "he said she said" arguments and the fog of time.
2. Send them written notice via email/delivery receipt NOW with the terms you signed up for, AND tell them that if the terms are not confirmed back in writing then you consider your maintenance contract null and void.

Many juridictions have a waiting period for due consideration on a contract. Act before the waiting period expires for you. In Ontario it is 48 hours.

3. Get in writing who i providing what: standard warranty, extended warranty, lifetime mainenance. This wiil help iron out the flow shown by @r.johnson

Finally @andre12dbsi is right. The saving is only 10% i believe

 

[TLX2014]

The #2 option is giving them and out, and they will likely consider the contract null and void. You negotiated in good faith and were offered an unlimited term. If that is what you want and can trust that you will not be screwed by them in other ways then push for the contract to be honored.

 

[HAx5]

The #2 option is giving them and out, and they will likely consider the contract null and void. You negotiated in good faith and were offered an unlimited term. If that is what you want and can trust that you will not be screwed by them in other ways then push for the contract to be honored.

True it gives both sides a way out. There doesnt seem to be a written contract right now that favours @MrMoo, the 'out' is protection for the owner.

Its a bit of a poker game now...the dealer may say "you signed this contract"....which means no leverage.

IMHO.

 

[MrMoo]

True it gives both sides a way out. There doesnt seem to be a written contract right now that favours @MrMoo, the 'out' is protection for the owner.

Its a bit of a poker game now...the dealer may say "you signed this contract"....which means no leverage.

IMHO.

There is a written contract as I went back and got a copy of it. What worries me is that they didn't explicitly write unlimited, it was just left blank. However, I verbally asked her multiple times if she was sure that it was unlimited, to which she replied yes every single time. I guess I should've uploaded the pertinent section of the contract on my first post. It is now attached at the bottom of this post.

I'm thinking about going with option 2 as getting a lawyer would be more expensive and more effort than what I think I'm willing to do.

I will hold off in writing them back until I go to bed tonight. I think I will also speak with my bank tomorrow morning and let them know of the situation.

 

[r.johnson]

Unless its explicitly written "unlimited", typed and not handwritten, i do not believe a dang thing. Heck i could write 1 year afterwards if im a dick. Fields left blank are always up for interpretation, and verbal promises always means crap. I would force them to write unlimited or walk out. But then if this is the only acura dealer in the area you may hv less choices to look into. Appears the dealership is taking advantage of being the only place in your area n try to lock u in by pulling fast ones. Lawyers are useless at the moment. I think op should consider if he can afford to drive far for another dealership

 

[andre12dbsi]

I'd make them write something in the block. I'd pass otherwise.

 

[MrMoo]

I'd make them write something in the block. I'd pass otherwise.

Hindsight, I probably should have. She originally didn't have "platinum" checked for coverage. When I asked her to check the box before I signed the contract she hesitated, but agreed to. I should've had her write in "unlimited" in the term box at that time as well.

Here is the draft email I will probably be sending the salesman tonight:

Thank you for calling me soon after I left the dealership to give me this information. Unfortunately this phone call turned what was supposed to be a joyful Saturday evening into a very stressful one.

As I stated during our brief phone call, I contractually agreed to and purchased an unlimited term with 100,000 mile warranty. I asked her multiple times if she was sure that there was no term limit and she replied yes every single time. The fact that there was no term limit was the main reason I decided to purchase the extended warranty an maintenance contracts.

I do hope that you are able to honor the unlimited term contract as I negotiated in good faith.

However, if you are unwilling to to honor the unlimited term warranty contract then I would like out of both it and the maintenance contract. The reason being is that they were presented to me as a package deal for $2,475. I did not know the price of the individual contracts until I signed the paperwork.

 

[andre12dbsi]

Looks good. It sucks that you have to go through that though. You hit the nail on the head. Things like that really make for a bad experience. You might want to mention the post purchase survey that Acura sends to its customers. They don't like anything other than "completely satisfied" or 10/10 on each point.

 

[MrMoo]

Looks good. It sucks that you have to go through that though. You hit the nail on the head. Things like that really make for a bad experience. You might want to mention the post purchase survey that Acura sends to its customers. They don't like anything other than "completely satisfied" or 10/10 on each point.

Oh you bet I will. I don't think they will ever realize the stress they caused me last night...it truly made my first new car buying experience a bad one. I haven't even been in the car since I got home last night...which is surprising because if you know me I would normally have been in there all night trying to figure out all the features.

The first thing the salesman mentioned when I got there was to make sure everything was filled out to the left on the survey. Then after I had signed all the paperwork and was told I was done I decided to verify I had a copy of everything I signed. Right as I started to do this is when they brought the general manager out to shake my hand. He also was very up front that he wanted to make sure that everything was filled out to the left on the survey. Afterwards is when I went to sit in my car and asked my wife to come sit in the passenger seat so that I could verify that we had a copy of everything I signed, but most importantly the now too good to be true warranty contract. Per my original post, this is where I realized that they did not give me a copy so I went back inside and asked for it.

 

[TLX2014]

As I stated during our brief phone call, I contractually agreed to and purchased an unlimited term with 100,000 mile warranty. I asked her multiple times if she was sure that there was no term limit and she replied yes every single time. The fact that there was no term limit was the main reason I decided to purchase the extended warranty an maintenance contracts.

I do hope that you are able to honor the unlimited term contract as I negotiated in good faith.

However, if you are unwilling to to honor the unlimited term warranty contract then I would like out of both it and the maintenance contract. The reason being is that they were presented to me as a package deal for $2,475. I did not know the price of the individual contracts until I signed the paperwork.

I highlighted her and she above. You should put in the name or the person. Also correct the typo "an" to "and".

 

[J233]

Really feel sorry for you; this for sure ruined the buying experience.

 

[andre12dbsi]

Let them know it's going on the survey for sure. I'm thinking that might help you.

 

[J233]

Let them know it's going on the survey for sure. I'm thinking that might help you.

Funny, I was thinking about the same thing since they are so focused on these surveys

Btw, I never had a chance to complete mine as the online attempts kept crashing on me and I gave up. Well, they sent me some sort of a reminder with a paper copy survey to follow so I feel like this is almost a mandatory thing....

 

[HAx5]

Remember this is (hopefully temporarily) a relatvely small hang up! I agree the dealer behaviour is not good on this subject. But worse case is you have a great car and dont have to deal with the dealership if you dont want to ever again!

Best case is a great car, and a great deal for services.

Deal with the GM from now on in - no room for underlings. You are the customer and dont let them forget it. Dealers make their money on service big time.

Ps- i dont think a lawyer is a real option unless its pro bono...

Again imho

 

[MrMoo]

I highlighted her and she above. You should put in the name or the person. Also correct the typo "an" to "and".

Thank you for your attention to detail. Putting her name in was one of the things I was wondering if I should do or not, but you just tipped it in the favor of including it. I had not proof read it yet and I do appreciate the extra pair of eyes looking at it.

Really feel sorry for you; this for sure ruined the buying experience.

Thank you, it really did...and still is as it is not over. I will be sure to post a final update whenever this is all over.

Let them know it's going on the survey for sure. I'm thinking that might help you.

I was already thinking that they are going to bring up the survey again and tell me that they want to make me happy. My response will be that the ONLY way they will make me happy is to honor the intent of the contract as it was presented and sold to me. Short of that I just want to sign the paperwork and be on my way to begin attempting to enjoy my purchase.

Remember this is (hopefully temporarily) a relatvely small hang up! I agree the dealer behaviour is not good on this subject. But worse case is you have a great car and dont have to deal with the dealership if you dont want to ever again!

Best case is a great car, and a great deal for services.

Deal with the GM from now on in - no room for underlings. You are the customer and dont let them forget it. Dealers make their money on service big time.

Ps- i dont think a lawyer is a real option unless its pro bono...

Again imho

I too believe this will end up being a minor hangup over the long term as I plan on keeping this car for 10 to 15 years. They messed up and they know it.

Yea, I agree on the lawyer part. Although I believe I could win this battle in court, I don't believe it will be worth my time and it will end up costing me more in the long run.

 

[r.johnson]

i will say give them one last chance to clear everything up, whether it is honoring the original "too-good-to-be-true" warranty and maintenance thingy (unlikely to happen since its way too unrealistic), or they take both items off the contract and move on. hopefully they will throw in some goodwill gesture as well if they choose to go for the latter option

i can understand the stress and frustration OP is going through, but if this dealership is indeed the only one in OP's local area.....the OP needs to weigh his options. meaning if sh!t hits the fan and the relationship turns awfully sour, OP will have to drive to the next town for service and warranty stuff at another dealer

though i am still unclear about one thing:
at the time of OP's first post, did OP already take delivery of the car? has OP paid already, even a deposit? has OP signed anything already? coz it will be harder to fight back if any of those questions is a "yes"